br23

Some time ago i used to follow a blog by a Belarusian guy who called himself rydel23. I mentioned him here a few times too. Then his blog wasn’t updated for a long time. Then it went offline. And then i removed him from my RSS. I still left the link to him, but struck it out. I considered the possibility that this rather well-known dissident was vaporized by Lukashenko’s KGB or maybe died.

So out of boredom i took a look at it today. Unfortunately my second hypothesis was closer to the truth – he was hit by a fire truck and is slowly recovering from coma. I can only hope that he’ll do better than Ariel Sharon did until now.

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16 Responses to “br23”


  1. 1 Grumpy Bear (identity 7.1) 2006-09-12 at 23:21

    Hi. I absolutely love unicode. It’s so damn sexy! And makes things easier too. Hall hail UTF-8!

  2. 2 aharoni 2006-09-13 at 00:00

    Ŏñļÿ ąṋ ėṽĭł ḿḁń, ẉħỗŝě ḩḗãřṫ ĩṣ ňõṭḫîņģ ḃṻṱ ḓẩṝḱʼnĕşš ċàŋ ḇḙ ḯṅḑḭḟḟḛṝḕṉţ ťōẘấṝđṡ ṯḣḝ ḅḛǻưŧý ổḟ Ửṇįćỏḋë.

    qamybim

  3. 3 meahevservi 2006-09-13 at 01:50

    Even with one article per week, you are still able to amaze me.

    You think that Belarusian guy is a freedom fighter? A fighter for democracy?
    How can he be a freedom fighter when his freedom-fighting models are Bill Clinton and Madeleine Albright, two persons who did their best to [b]enslave[/b] and [b]destroy[/b] my country, Serbia, and who made Iraq a huge pile of pebbles, stones and human meat?

    He praised: [b]“Clinton is an amazing personality, a brilliant politician,…, a really smart man”[/b]
    and [b]“Madeleine Albright (whom I had a [b]pleasure[/b] to meet in Prague two years ago)”[/b]…

    Let me remind you what Mrs. Albright stated once:

    [b]“It’s a hard choice, but I think, we, think, it’s worth it.” [/b]

    “Her role was most famously summed up by an exchange in a 1996 interview on 60 Minutes. Reporter Leslie Stahl, citing a then-recent [u]U.N. report that stated the sanctions had resulted in the deaths of at least 500,000 Iraqi children, asked Albright whether that was an acceptable price to pay; Albright replied, “We think it’s worth it.[/u]” [url=http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/0223/nc-parrish.html]Seattle Weekly[/url]

    Yes, Saddam and Milosevic were, and Lukashenko still is, a blood-sucking dictators, but they [the American government(s)] don’t care about that, man… Both Saddam Hussein and Slobodan Milosevic were [b]American allies[/b]. What? You didn’t know that Milosevic was an American ally? Oh, yeah, he was, indeed. During the period when he was doing exactly what the Americans wanted him to do – he was their ally. But, when they realized he has plans of his own – to maintain the war (which he didn’t started) in order to stay in power – and not to prepare the Balkans for “stability” they needed for their investments – they made him a new Hitler in their media.

    Milosevic really has been smothering democracy in Serbia – but that wasn’t the problem for the USA – as long as he was doing that [b]for them[/b]. When he started to act independently – that was the REAL crime. Independency of other dictators is the real crime for the Americans, not their dictatorships.

    You didn’t know that? Oh, man…..

    How couldn’t you know that whan it repeats again and again and again, all over the world, with almost every goddamn dictator in the world – Suharto in Indonesia, Noriega in Panama, Ceausescu in Romania (surprised, eh? but, yeah, he was the American man, not Russian, he hated Russia), Mobutu from Zaire (now Congo), the Talebans in Afganistan… ALL of them were American friends – till they commited the only crime America really cares about – the crime of independent acting, of stopping working for them, by their rules.

    And that’s happening right now, too. Just look at the Saudi Arabia, American close friend and ally. Is THAT a democracy? For God’s sake, their women couldn’t vote a few years ago, and are still severly punished for adultery (if not killed). And Turkey can kill as many Kurds as it wants to, who cares?
    But the Americans doesn’t bother that – as long as they work for them, in their interests, by theirs rules.
    But if they ever stop doing that – just look and see – over a night they’ll become the pure evil in western media.

    The Americans don’t want democracy in Belarus, they want “the democracy” – a set of their rules which DOES NOT include pepol’s choice, but only a kind of political and economical atmosphere in which their investors can make money, the big money.

    That guy maybe thinks he’s fighting against the dictatorship in his country – but really he is only trying to exchange one type of dictatorship for another.

    And then he qoutes that hater and russophob Aspi Pohars as if that was the most normal thing in the Universe…
    That’s pathetic and repulsive.

    And you compare his illnes with Ariel Sharon’s one. What the heck…? You feel sorry for Sharon? He comitted a terrible crime against his own people, a terrible injustice – well, maybe his current health condition is God’s will. Don’t waste your pitty on him, you have a lot of people around you who are more worth of it.

    You know, we have a plenty of those who works and thinks like that Belarus guy. They are telling us 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 12 months in a year that we are the war criminals, that we are guilty for everything bad that happened in the Balkans in the last 15 years, that we [b]should accept our “guilt” and should “repent”[/b], and that means to accept their rules of thinking, acting, feeling, existing…… That practically means to become their slaves, their “things” which they use according to their needs and interests.

    [b]HELL, NO![/b]
    Never! Never slaves, never again. Not in our lives.

    When an innocent Jewish guy gets beaten in my country, I say: yes, I am responsible too, for not doing absolutely all I could to prevent such things. But when the Croats, Muslims, Germans, Americans… commit A GENOCIDE against my nation, and [b]after that[/b] we commit several massacres against their people – only God can persuade me that we are the “genociders” – the party guilty for everything – and he didn’t do that. No crimes are justified and we take our part of a burden… but to take all guilt… Never.

    And one more thing…
    If you are pro-orange parties in Ukraine and Belarus, does that also mean that you support the Serbian version of “oranges”, too ?

  4. 4 meahevservi 2006-09-13 at 01:53

    BBCode not working? Greaaat.

  5. 5 aharoni 2006-09-13 at 22:37

    That was a long rant – now how about taking a minute to write something about my alphabet theory? :)

    If you know the smallest thing about me, that you probably also know that one of the things that i care about the most is language. It is one of the most important things for Rydel too. Unfortunately he sees the Russian language as a huge threat to the survival of his own. Many people in Belarus are quite indifferent to their own language, Russia is very active to make the situation worse and Lukashenko is helping Russia by closing down Belarusian schools, having all government websites written in Russian and maybe English, but not Belarusian etc.

    Now you say that Rydel is making the mistake of turning to America for help? OK, i agree that this is a mistake on his behalf and i pretty much agree with everything that you wrote about America. But he sees Russia as an enemy and he has a good reason. He doesn’t hate Russia, he just wants Russia to stay out of his country and not patronize it.

    > And then he qoutes that hater and russophob
    > Aspi Pohars as if that was the most normal
    > thing in the Universe…

    Where did you find that? You seem to read his blog better than i did.

    And i’ll tell you again: I don’t know who Aspi Pohars is, but Rydel is a russophob in the very direct sense – he is afraid that the Russian language will kill the Belarusian.

    > And one more thing…
    > If you are pro-orange parties in Ukraine and
    > Belarus, does that also mean that you support
    > the Serbian version of “oranges”, too ?

    My attitude towards the oranges in U and B is not outright support. As i said once – i put the picture of Y. Tymoshenko on my blog mostly because she’s hot.

    These “oranges” don’t try to hide that they are funded by EU and USA, who promote “democracy”, but have additional interests. In practice those politicians aren’t such amazing leaders either. But the alternative is going back to the USSR, which is what Belarus is doing now, and that’s bad. I wish they could find their own way.

    I wish the same to Israel too. The Israeli “oranges”, btw, are very authentic and i support them completely, but it’s a wholly different issue.

    And i don’t know anything about the Serbian oranges.

    > BBCode not working? Greaaat.

    Larry Wall once talked about irrationalites in various programming languages. He had this to say about PHP:

    “I thought of a way to do it so it must be right”.

    I hope that you get the joke. The audience loved it. (I was there and i even participated in transcribing the speech.)

    The link: Present Continuous, Future Perfect

    “a href” is less readable than url=, but there are reasons that it’s written that way.

  6. 6 meahevservi 2006-09-15 at 09:21

    That was a long rant – now how about taking a minute to write something about my alphabet theory? :)

    A rant? Meaning – rant [rænt] n. wild uncontrolled speech, loud violent utterance (Babylon) ?

    Well, I’ve read it once again and it seems to me it was well-articulated so it can’t be “wild and uncontrolled”. It was a bit passionate, of course. Some of us, the Serbs, tend to react with strong feelings when the Russians and Russia are attacked. Most of us have never forgotten that the Russians was those who saved us from certain extinction in WWII, not the Americans or British.

    It’s ill-formatted ‘cos I forgot that the Blogger doesn’t accept BBC code, and doesn’t allow commenters to edit their comments.

    You can call it what ever you want – a rant, gibberish, babble – but you can’t make it untrue.

    Madeleine Albright did say that a half of milion Iraqi children was worth of dying in order to obtain that soaked-in-blood “democracy” they have now, Milosevic really was an American ally in mid-nineties, there’s no democracy in Saudi Arabia but that’s just fine to anyone as long as they deliver oil…

    Alphabet theory? Sure. But some other time. :)))

    Unfortunately he sees the Russian language as a huge threat to the survival of his own. Many people in Belarus are quite indifferent to their own language, Russia is very active to make the situation worse…

    Huge threat? That’s a joke, right?

    Belarusian is endangered by romanisation comming from the West, much more that from it’s fraternal Russian. How can I be endangered by my brothers? We are from the same gens (од истог рода) and the Westerners are intruders in our, Slavic culture, not we in our own. “Lacinka” is Belarusian? WTF? “Serbian Latin”? WTF? There’s no such a thing as Belarusian Lacinka and Serbian Latin. “Belarisian Lacinka” is… what?…Polish (who are even more romanised Slavs) … or whatever, and “Serbian Latin” is pure, 100% Croatian Latin. For a thousand years Catholics have been trying to romanise us. Just look at Serbia – 60 years ago almost noone was writing Latin script in Serbia, and now only 10% writes Cyrillic. Now, who is endangering whom?

    But he sees Russia as an enemy and he has a good reason.

    No, he has not. Russia is helping Belarus to keep its Slavic culture, not to destroy it. How can one Slavs destroy another Slavs (speaking about culture)? They can just enrich each others.

    You know, Serbian language was much more similar to Russian 200 years ago, but than came frakking Vuk Karadzic with his German, Austro-Hungarian and Slovenian friends (Goethe, Jacob Grimm, Jernej Kopitar and some others) and destroyed it, removing most of Russian and Church Slavonic influances from it, but leaving all Turkish (more than 3000).

    And now if someone here would try to turn it back and make it more like Russian – you would probably say he’s trying to destroy it. But it’s already destroyed two centuries ago. That wouldn’t be destruction, but revitalization and improvement.

    Where did you find that? You seem to read his blog better than i did.

    “• Contemplating Genocide at a Moscow Opera

    I try very hard not to be Russophobic, and most of the time I succeed. There is one place, however, where I frequently have fantasies of mercilessly hacking to death scores of Russians with a blunt machete — the concert hall.”

    And then he (the Belarus guy) confirms that with: “I think, it also applies to Belarusians, at least partially.”

    That’s from Aspi Pahar’s Contemplating Genocide at a Moscow Opera. What’s the amount of his hatred towards the Russians you can also se in his other articles – Subtitles For Subhumans and The Roving Russophobe

    These “oranges” don’t try to hide that they are funded by EU and USA, who promote “democracy”, but have additional interests. In practice those politicians aren’t such amazing leaders either. But the alternative is going back to the USSR, which is what Belarus is doing now, and that’s bad. I wish they could find their own way.

    The alternative is close ties with Russia. Without Russia, Belarus would probably be a puny misery, like Serbia.

    I wish the same to Israel too. The Israeli “oranges”, btw, are very authentic and i support them completely, but it’s a wholly different issue.

    Actually, the Israeli “oranges” – meaning the American proxies – are in power in Israel since decades. That’s why Israel brings terror and destruction in his neighbourhood, instead of “peace and enlightenment”, like it’s supposed to. Just look at this most recent war – instead of killing Nasralla’s terrorists, Israeli government destroyed half a Lebanon, leaving the terrorists almost intact. Is that the Jewish way? I don’t think so – that’s the American way (remember Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Yugoslavia,…..), carried out by Israeli pro-American Jews.

    It’s been said Golda meir said “I can forgive the Arabs for killing my children; I cant forgive them for making my children killers.” Bit it wasn’t the Arabs that made her children killers. The Americans are responsible for that, and, of course, their Jewish proxies.

    Will Mr. Olmert send his children to kill the Arab children and to be killed by Arabs? I don’t think so. He’ll send them to Princeton, Harvard or Yale, and your mother’s children will do the honorable killing and dying “for their country”.

    And i don’t know anything about the Serbian oranges.

    You may get knowing them at http://www.b92.net They’re all there. (Don’t be stunned with some Jewish names there, the majority of Serbian Jews are decent citizens, like Ivana Jordan, Avram Izrael, Predrag Kon, Djordje David and many others).

    “I thought of a way to do it so it must be right”.

    I hope that you get the joke. The audience loved it. (I was there and i even participated in transcribing the speech.)

    I got it.

    I’m scripting in HTML since the year 2000, but I wrote BBC tags ‘cos I do it all the time on various Internet forums, and rarely post here.

  7. 7 aharoni 2006-09-16 at 13:25

    > Huge threat? That’s a joke, right?

    No, it is not a joke.

    > “Lacinka” is Belarusian? WTF?

    Lacinka is just one of the ways to write the Belarusian language and it is indeed influenced by the Polish Latin alphabet. But Rydel is not a fan of Lacinka. See here: Беларуская лацінка і яе будучыня. It is in Belarusian, and you can understand some of it if you understand Russian. Close to the beginning he asks:

    Самае першае пытаньне: а навошта? Я ня бачу ніякай моцнай прычыны для пераходу на лацінку, апрача аднаго: вонкавай эўрапейзацыі нашай мовы. Людзі, якія ня ведаюць беларускай кірыліцы, але ведаюць беларускую лацінку, ня змогуць чытаць расейскіх і сэрбскіх газэт, але змогуць чытаць газэты чэскія і польскія.

    Вось і ў гэтым пытаньне: ці будуць у нас будучыні палітычныя і сацыяльныя ўмовы і патрэбнасьць для такой зьмены? Я думаю, што верагоднасьць такога разьвіцьця падзеяў ня надта высокая.

    Translation:

    The first question: but for what? I don’t see any significant reason to change to Lacinka, except one: further Europe-isation of our language. People who don’t know the Belarusian cyrillic won’t be able to read Russian and Serbian papers, but will be able to read Czech and Polish ones.

    So that’s the question: will there ever be political and social reasons and necessity for such a change? I think that the possibility of such a development is not so high.

    As you see, he doesn’t care too much about Lacinka and for him it is mostly a part of the heritage, a historic curiosity.

    But he is rightly afraid about the language itself. Years of Soviet rule made Russian more important than Belarusian for everyday affairs such as work and studies. Though very similar to Russian, Belarusian is a distinct language – the differences are more than “funny” orthography and several words. There are significant differences in syntax, the case system, the adjectives, the way questions are asked. Belarusian also has its own rich heritage of literature and poetry.

    When Belarus became independent in 1991, the government tried to revitalize the language and the culture, but since 1994 all of this is going down the drain again, because Lukashenko considers Russian more important than Belarusian. His website is in Russian, his speeches are mostly in Russian. The TV is mostly Russian. All schools in the capital Minsk teach in Russian. It’s true that a lot of people in Belarus don’t care about it and actually prefer Russian, but it’s a huge waste. When a language disappears, a way of thinking disappears with it and the world becomes more dull and boring.

    > Russia is helping Belarus to keep its Slavic culture, not to destroy it.

    No-one is trying to destroy Belarus’ Slavic culture, but Russia is destroying Belarus’ Belarusian culture. Russians think that Russian is somehow more important than all the other languages.

    > How can one Slavs destroy another Slavs (speaking about culture)?
    > They can just enrich each others.

    Closing down schools is destruction, not enrichment.

    > You know, Serbian language was much more similar to
    > Russian 200 years ago, but than came frakking Vuk Karadzic …
    > and destroyed it, removing most of Russian and Church Slavonic
    > influances from it, but leaving all Turkish (more than 3000).

    I agree with you that it’s bad. Making a language artificially different by using foreign words is certainly ugly.

    > And now if someone here would try to turn it back and make it more
    > like Russian – you would probably say he’s trying to destroy it.

    Russia isn’t making Belarusian “more like” Russian – it is simply erasing Belarusian completely.

    > But it’s already destroyed two centuries ago.
    > That wouldn’t be destruction, but revitalization and improvement.

    This would probably infuriate you, but aren’t Croatians rather better in making up new Slavic words instead of borrowing foreign ones?

    > And then he (the Belarus guy) confirms that with:
    > “I think, it also applies to Belarusians, at least partially.”

    You are turning it all upside down. He hates that Aspi guy, but sometimes he is just self-critical too.

    > The alternative is close ties with Russia.
    > Without Russia, Belarus would probably be
    > a puny misery, like Serbia.

    Well, that’s probably true, but the way things are going now, in a few years Belarus won’t exist at all, but will just be a bunch of provinces in the west of Russia.

    > > I wish the same to Israel too. The Israeli “oranges”, btw,
    > > are very authentic and i support them completely,
    > > but it’s a wholly different issue.

    > Actually, the Israeli “oranges” – meaning the American proxies
    > – are in power in Israel since decades.

    OK, now you are confused again. The Israeli politicians who use the orange color, are those who oppose the destruction of settlements. They are quite independent and they are not American proxies. The Israeli major parties – Labor (Avoda), Sharon’s Likud and now Kadima, they are the American proxies and they aren’t orange. But in Israel “orange” has a different sense.

    ikizajth

  8. 8 meahevservi 2006-09-16 at 22:35

    Lukashenko considers Russian more important than Belarusian. His website is in Russian, his speeches are mostly in Russian. The TV is mostly Russian. All schools in the capital Minsk teach in Russian. It’s true that a lot of people in Belarus don’t care about it and actually prefer Russian, but it’s a huge waste.

    You just don’t get it.

    The Belarusians, Ukrainians, Chechs, Bulgarians, Serbs… we are all branches of the same tree of which the Russians are the stem (I hope that’s the right word), meaning – the biggest, main part. Yes, due to various historical necessities, we got divided into many various nations which are quite different now, but we are still the same ethnic body. Some of us are more aware of that (some Ukrainians, some Belarusians, some Serbs), while others completely deny any greater similarities, but we are all of the same tree.

    And if 80% of Belarusians and 50% of Serbs feel that they should be closer to Russia – what’s wrong with that? Separated – we are all, except Russia, very week and very prone to Western, Catholic influences. Just look at what happened to Serbia – almost nobody writes Cyrillic any more. Is that a good change in our culture? We need to stick together to PRESERVE ourselves.

    How can’t you understand – I love Russians, and pro-Russian Ukrainians, Belarusians, and other Slavs – just as much you love Ashkenazim, Sefardim and Mizrachim. And you do love them all the same, don’t you? So, what’s so different about us, the Slavs? Don’t we have the right to congregate, to stick together?

    I can hardly understand Bulgarians, even Russians, but do the Yiddish speaking Ashkenazim undesrtand Mizrachim from Morocco better? Maybe, but not much better.

    You see – Russia is The Core. Russia is мать who can protect us and help us to stay what we are – the Orthodox Slavs. The conversion of our people, in zillion various forms, is in progress right now – so we need that help from Russia.

    And you are so worried about our specific subSlavic cultures which are about to expire?

    Pleeease…

    You have 6-7 million Jews in the USA who mostly understand Hebrew worse than me. Who will be saving them, if guys like you are busy saving us from the Russians?

    We are endangered from Russia just like the Yidish speaking Jews are endangered from Israel.

    If you want somthing to save – please, start saving Yiddish.

    And, I have never heard you saying USA is smothering Jewish culture on its territory, although bigger part of American Jews are greater Americans than Anglo-Saxons.

    This would probably infuriate you, but aren’t Croatians rather better in making up new Slavic words instead of borrowing foreign ones?

    First of all, I don’t get furious. You are forgetting I’m a Serb, a Dinaric and an Adriatic temperament, we are all (The Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, Italians….) very vivid speakers. We are not furious, al least not much more than others.

    They are making up new “Slavic” words in such unnatural, abnormal and irregular way that even their own linguists consider that – literally – “ludicrous”. And their own population is making jokes about those new “words” and most of them never use it in colloquial speech, only when they are forced to use it – for administartional purposes and stuff like that.

    You – in Hebrew – also have many made up words, I don’t know how many of them sounds funny to you, but what Croatians are doing with the language is a laughter. And they are not doing that because they are missing the words for various things – but mainly to make it different from Serbian.

    OK, now you are confused again. The Israeli politicians who use the orange color, are those who oppose the destruction of settlements. They are quite independent and they are not American proxies. The Israeli major parties – Labor (Avoda), Sharon’s Likud and now Kadima, they are the American proxies and they aren’t orange. But in Israel “orange” has a different sense.

    I know exactly (well, almost exactly :D) what is the orange color used for in Israel and who use it.

    I used it as a synonym for American servants, like are those in Ukraine, not in the sense it’s used in Israel.

    Once again – Sharon and Olmert are “the oranges” in the sense of the Ukrainian, pro-American oranges, not in the sense of Israeli anti-disengagement protesters.

    There was some other items I wanted to clarify, but I don’t have time now, and I’m tired…

    Also I have a feeling like I’m talking to a wall, and I’m not even Jewish, nor Chineese, nor a Perl fan. :D

  9. 9 aharoni 2006-09-17 at 02:08

    > You just don’t get it.

    > The Belarusians, Ukrainians, Chechs, Bulgarians, Serbs…
    > we are all branches of the same tree of which the Russians
    > are the stem (I hope that’s the right word), meaning -
    > the biggest, main part.

    It is the biggest part in practice, but it is unjustly patronizing its branches. From purely linguistic point of view, there’s nothing inherently better or more important in Russian than in Belarusian or Ukrainian (or Serbian, or Hebrew, or Hawai’i). Moscow has a stronger army and Alexander Pushkin is more famous than Jakub Kolas or Ivo Andrić, but that’s it. Russia can keep good ties with its sister countries without forcing everyone speak the same language, like it does now.

    You won’t like what i’m gonna say here, but: You should feel lucky that Serbia doesn’t share a border with Russia. If it would be closer, than it would become a province of Russia, and far less people would speak Serbian today (on the other hand, those who would still remember it, would probably write it in Cyrillic, but not because of their patriotism, but because the Russian government would close down all the Latin printing shops – like it did in Lithuania a hundred years ago.)

    > And you are so worried about our specific
    > subSlavic cultures which are about to expire?

    Well yes, i am. Do i hear you admitting that it’s about to expire? You see, i’m not taking the side of those Belarusian nationalists who are outright anti-Russian (they are likely anti-Semitic too); but i do support those who keep their own language their own and don’t neglect it in favor of that of Pushkin and Tolstoy – even though the latter is my mother tongue.

    > If you want somthing to save – please, start saving Yiddish.

    As a matter of fact, i started taking private Yiddish lessons lately.

    > You – in Hebrew – also have many made up words, I don’t know
    > how many of them sounds funny to you, but what Croatians
    > are doing with the language is a laughter.

    Oh, so you say that in practice not all those words are used? In that case it is quite similar to Hebrew. There are some technical words that found their way into actual spoken Hebre, but there are also some words that the Academy of Hebrew makes up and nobody uses them.

    > Also I have a feeling like I’m talking to a wall, and I’m
    > not even Jewish, nor Chineese, nor a Perl fan. :D

    If you were a Perl fan, talking to a wall would be your wettest dream.

    rwuefdb

  10. 10 MeahevServi 2006-09-20 at 15:46

    From purely linguistic point of view, there’s nothing inherently better or more important in Russian than in Belarusian or Ukrainian (or Serbian, or Hebrew, or Hawai’i).

    The “purely linguistic point of view” is maybe important to you, but it is certainly not much important to our Slavic nations, in that way. What is really important to us is how close we are one to each other, and, especially – to Russia. And, as a lingusit, you surely know that the language of a nation is a mirror of its social character and of its colective consciousness. What does not exist in the language of a nation – that also doesn’t exist in its colective consciousness. If we are far away from the Russias in our language – than we are far away from them in our minds and in our hearts. And that’s bad for us, ‘cos then we are more prone to Western, Catholic influences.

    but that’s it. Russia can keep good ties with its sister countries without forcing everyone speak the same language, like it does now.

    It’s not true that Russia forces us, or the Ukrainians, Belorusians… on anything. If the Russian language is favored in Belarus – that’s not because Russia forces that, but because their governments (or local and regional authorities) choose it.

    You should feel lucky that Serbia doesn’t share a border with Russia.?

    I disagree.

    If ever, God forbid, Belarus and Ukraine would have been bombed by NATO like Serbia has been, then I’ll, maybe, reconsider.

    If it would be closer, than it would become a province of Russia, and far less people would speak Serbian today

    You don’t know that, it’s not for certain. But how do you know that we wouldn’t be happier as a Russian province than we are know – a (Western made) pariah country with quasi-sovereignity?
    But it’s not wise to speculate like that, “what would be if…”.

    One more thing – you tend to think about the language of a group as if it was an absolute good. But sometimes, it’s just a derivate of bad historical circumstances. This Serbian, as we speak it now, is just an outcome of some rather misfortunate historical events (Turkish occupation, Vuk Karadzic’s misunderstandings with Russians and close ties with Germans, Tito’s rule…). Even our comming to these grounds hasn’t brought us much luck. Throughout of our history, most of the time – we didn’t do well, we mostly suffered and rarely had been prosperous. Maybe it wasn’t such a good idea to come here in the first place, and maybe the return – in cultural means – to the roots would be good for us.

    And Yiddish – I’m shure there’s a lot of nice cultural works made in it, but it’s only a consequence of a great Jewish misfortune – not having a country of their own. It should never had to exist. So, now, when the Jews have their country, why strive to preserve it? All Jews should speak Hebrew now (or possibly Aramaic, if so is chosen) – and leave Yiddish to its bitter history.

    Do i hear you admitting that it’s about to expire?

    No. That was said sarcastically.
    But it is in danger – not from the East, but from the West.
    90% of us don’t write Cyrillic anymore – and that came to us from the West. If these tendencies continue, it is possible that in 50 years many of us won’t speak Serbian at all, but English.

    i’m not taking the side of those Belarusian nationalists …

    I would realy, really like to meet those Belarus nationalists who are anti-Russian. :)))
    ALL of Serbian nationalists are PRO-Russian, fiercely.

    even though the latter is my mother tongue.

    It looks to me like it was your Masters’ tongue, to whom you were slaves.
    I’m really starting to believe there’s a little rusophob, deep inside of you.
    That’s funny, ‘cos I had pleasure to meet some Russian Jews (on DC++ hubs) who were acting like they would kill a guy if speaking against Russia. Unbelievable amount of loyalty to matushka.

    Oh, so you say that in practice not all those words are used?

    Ofcourse not. Especially by the older population. Kids who were born after 1991. tend to use more of those ill-coined words, and in media they are used a lot, but in colloquial speech – no.

    but there are also some words that the Academy of Hebrew makes up and nobody uses them

    Like תקליטור ? How do you, personally, say “compact disk” I say it “компакт диск” or just “диск” or “це-де”.

  11. 11 aharoni 2006-09-20 at 17:27

    > It’s not true that Russia forces us, or the
    > Ukrainians, Belorusians… on anything. If
    > the Russian language is favored in Belarus
    > – that’s not because Russia forces that,
    > but because their governments (or local and
    > regional authorities) choose it.

    Russia does force it. It even tries to force it on non-Slavic countries. Putin expressed his serious disappointment lately when Kyrgyzstan passed a law to change the language of the documents in its army from Russian to Kyrgyz. Some Russian speakers live in Kyrgyzstan, but he should get his nose out of other country’s army.

    When Russia complains about the rights of Russian speakers in former SU countries – it is justified. For example, when the governments of Latvia and Ukraine force Russian speakers to speak Latvian and Ukrainian, it is an outright human rights violation.

    In case of Belarus – Lukashenko, with Russia’s support is forcing Belarusians to speak Russian by closing down Belarusian schools. Unfortunately, many people in Belarus actually don’t care about it, because all of them know Russian. But it makes me sad, because as i wrote earlier – when a language is lost, a piece of humanity is lost, even if the people themselves survive.

    > But how do you know that we wouldn’t be happier
    > as a Russian province than we are know

    Maybe you would be more prosperous, but you wouldn’t be so Serbian. It’s your call. If you have Slavic national pride, it is good. Go on and express it the Serbian way. Russia is just one part of the big Slavic family, albeit the biggest one. You don’t have to submit to Russia to be a proud Slav.

    > And Yiddish – I’m shure there’s a lot of nice cultural works made in it,

    More than just nice. Shalom Aleichem, Isaac Bashevis Singer and Leibush Peretz are world-class geniuses. I’m learning Yiddish so i would be able to read their works in their original tongue. I read them in Russian, English and Hebrew, but it’s definitely not the same. (The translations to Hebrew, by the way, were the worst.)

    > All Jews should speak Hebrew

    All Jews should speak Hebrew, but losing the heritage of Yiddish literature will be very bad.

    > > Do i hear you admitting that it’s about to expire?

    > No. That was said sarcastically.
    > But it is in danger – not from the East, but from the West.

    This affects Russian very badly. Russian is badly contaminated with foreign words today. But Belarusian is in danger of extinction from Russian.

    > ALL of Serbian nationalists are PRO-Russian, fiercely.

    That’s because you are not threatened by Russia in any way. Belarusians think that they are.

    > > even though the latter is my mother tongue.

    > It looks to me like it was your Masters’ tongue,
    > to whom you were slaves.

    Nahh, you are going too far. I never looked at it that way.

    Besides, we are not some Belarusians or Tatars – we are JEWS! The Russians are OUR slaves! :)

    (i’m kidding, right?)

    Seriously though, i do love the Russian language and i do my best not to forget it. My trip to Russia a year ago mostly filled me with good childhood memories.

    > I’m really starting to believe
    > there’s a little rusophob, deep inside of you.

    I waited for you to say that, but i didn’t prepare any answer.

    I am not a Russophob. Some Russian kids beat the crap out of me for the fun of it many times, but even towards them i don’t feel any racial hate. Even after one of them said to me that his mother told him that it’s OK to beat me up, ‘cuz i’m a Jew. (She also happened to be my school’s deputy-principal.) But no, it still didn’t make me a Russophob in any way. You’ll just have to believe me.

    I do think that Russia should loosen up a little and stop playing silly political and economical games. But i think that America is even worse than Russia in this, so it’s not really important.

    In many things i completely support Russia too. Too numerous to list here.

    > > but there are also some words that the
    > > Academy of Hebrew makes up and nobody uses them

    > Like תקליטור ? How do you, personally, say “compact disk”
    > I say it “компакт диск” or just “диск” or “це-де”.

    תקליטור is not a complete joke – it is actually used sometimes. But most of the time everyone, including me, says דיסק. It’s just shorter. But i do say תקליט instead of אלבום, even though תקליט supposedly refers to vinyl records. I like it because it has a good generic meaning – “recording”.

    Some sciences, such as geography, mathematics, and biology adopted many newly created Hebrew words. Computer people adopted some words – מחשב (computer), מסך (monitor) and מצלמה (camera) are used universally and many people say מחשב נייד instead of לאפטופ and כונן קשיח instead of הארד דיסק. But there are also some words which became total jokes. For example, the academy proposed to call the @ sign כרוכית. But everyone calls it with the Czech/German name שטרודל. Also, מרשתת was proposed instead of אינטרנט, but nobody uses it.

    oovckk

  12. 12 aharoni 2006-09-20 at 17:29

    Dammmit, those moving yellow eyes of yours are giving me the heebie-jeebies.

    kfcqfctn

  13. 13 MeahevServi 2006-09-22 at 15:52

    those moving yellow eyes of yours are giving me the heebie-jeebies

    Don’t fear us, cheer us!

    But, are you sure that’s from my Cylon eyes and not from the fact that you are going to experience the biggest change in your life since your birth? :)))
    Having cold feet, eh? :D

    Is that why you’ve almost stopped blogging..? And that was your favorite activity on the ‘Net for years… Poor man! You must have been horrified!

    Aaah, don’t deny it. I know what is happening, I’ve seen it many times.

    I just hope Hadar realize what are you going through and how actually brave you are. :)))

    But don’t worry, it’s all gonna be alright.

    Nah. I’m kidding. You’re doomed. Dooooooomed, I tell ya! :))))

  14. 14 aharoni 2006-09-23 at 12:54

    No.

    Your yellow eyes are really giving me the heebie-jeebies.

    I’m with Hadar for almost 5 years, and the wedding is mostly a formality.

    I almost stopped blogging, because of the technical problems with Blogger 2.0 beta and because i’m busy at work.

    It is very exciting to know that you noticed it.

    krhiagiw

  15. 15 AlmogBlog 2006-09-26 at 02:42

    Hi,
    Sorry to bug in, but two things bother me.
    1. I hear the word כרוכית quite often. It is catching on… (it’s widely used in the media so I think people are getting used to hearing it).

    2. Amir, you have such strong beliefs about conserving language. Yet you choose to write the word ‘I’ as a lowercase letter. I understand you do it to make a social point, but it’s still a sore to the eye.
    As I see it, it’s the same as if I’d decide the letter C is useless and kan be replased by an S and a K.

  16. 16 aharoni 2006-09-26 at 08:06

    Almog,

    1. OK. If it’s true, i am glad.

    2. a. Damn it, i’ve done it for so long. First intentionally, then it became a habit to the point of being worthy of careful preservation.

    b. After about 9 years that i am doing it, you are the second person that has anything to say about it. The first one was also an Israeli, but he was an idiot, who used it as an argument against me when i remarked about his horrible English spelling. Is it really such a sore to the eye?

    c. The letter c can’t be replaced, at least not the way you showed: In “replased” it would be pronounced as z. But anyway, the English orthography is probably the worst in the world. Ghoti, dammit.

    P.S. I didn’t imagine that a short sad entry about a fellow blogger in coma will become the biggest comment magnet on this blog.

    ezxpslp


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